A Morocco Travel Itinerary That's Made for Photographers!

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Destination Morocco podcast, the show that takes you away to the beautiful country of Morocco. I am your host, Azdean Elmoustaquim. In each episode, we explore Moroccan culture, history, attractions, and activities, real and practical information coming from experienced travelers and Native Americans like myself.

And now let's go exploring.

Hello John, welcome to Destination Morocco podcast. So to start, thank you. What initially really inspired you to travel to Morocco? 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Well, I've been wanting to go for, for years, and I've been to Egypt several times and I love North Africa. And I've been to South Africa as well many times. Um, [00:01:00] and I'm a, I'm a big history guy and I really wanted to follow the transition from North Africa into Spain.

Yes. So we started in Spain and moved, went down in Morocco. So it's been on my list for a long time and finally I was able to go and I loved it. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: That's, that's incredible. How, how, how much time did you spend in Morocco, John? 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: I was there for two weeks, I, I 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: believe. Oh, wow. Two weeks is, yeah. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Was there for two weeks.

Yeah. Yeah. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: And did you get a chance to see the north part of Morocco, the south or both, or just some cities 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: North and mid, so, oh, I see. We started in Tangier. We went as far as South as as Marrakech. Awesome. And, uh, the, uh, the desert just outside of Marrakech. I wanted to go down all the way to the Southern deserts, but.

That was gonna take a little too much time and driving for the amount of time that we had. So yeah, next time I'll Oh, absolutely. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Absolutely. [00:02:00] So John, as a photographer, what was your first visual impressions of Morocco when you arrived there to Tangier? 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Well, I love the street scene and um, I'm also a food and wine guy and.

I, I might have had one of my best meals ever at a street vendor. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Oh wow. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Well, not a street vendor, it was a restaurant, but you know, things spill out onto the street. Pretty like casual seating and just out in the open, you know, next to the street. Very busy street. Um, and they were cooking right there. Oh, wow.

And it was, it was one of two of my favorite meals. The other one was also on the street, funny enough. Um, so I love the atmosphere and people just living their lives. Yeah. And, and of course. Tangier, the coastline is beautiful up there as well, so it is 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: gorgeous. Yes. You know that when we visited Tangier Tanger was, was a really big surprise for us.

We loved it. [00:03:00] It's very diverse. A lot of old history, a lot of new history. And Tangier has seen the, the most development, if you would, in the last two decades. Oh, so, and the food was very different, very unique. It has that Moroccan style, but it's also, it has a little bit of Spanish flair to it. And, and, and the street food was amazing.

Anywhere we went was just incredible. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: We brought up a good observation that I didn't mention, which is yes, the, the amount of development along the coast was quite spectacular. Yeah. I mean, it was, it was even more modern and. And I, I don't, I can't tell what the insides looked at, but I'm sure they were great.

But it looked, they looked much nicer than the Costa del Sol in Spain. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Oh, wow. To me. Oh wow. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Yeah, it was, there was some really cool, especially around the Cave of Hercules in that area. Yes, yes. So, 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: yeah, it's, it's incredible. You bring in a lot of memories. John, did anything immediately capture your eyes, uh, when he got, when he got to Morocco?[00:04:00]

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Other than it. It felt like Spain, the landscape. Yeah. And the, and the vegetation and the, it felt very much of that same type of era. Um, and then of course when we got into the city, it was a busy city. And like you said, yes. Modern and old. Yeah, but not busy like. Egypt busy. Yes. Yes. Yeah. This was calm compared to that.

Yes. Yeah. But, but in, but a good, you know, a very urban feel. Yes. Didn't spend a lot of time there. Um, because we were, we were heading down to wan. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Yes, there's a lot of similarities between the northern Morocco and southern Spain because obviously we colonize them. They colonized us, we colonized them for about seven or 800 years.

So you can definitely see the influence, especially when you go to, you know, uh, Southern Spain. Uh, it's, it is super similar, but also in ji a lot of people they speak Spanish. Um. You know, more than other parts of Morocco versus you said [00:05:00] Marrakesh and stuff like that. So that's one of the things that you will notice when you visit Tanger.

It's just, it is incredible. It's amazing, and it's absolutely worth the visit when you're traveling to Morocco. So you said Tangier, then you said Chefchaouen. She now, for a photographer, when we say Chefchaouen, it's definitely one of the must stops, you know? Oh, absolutely. So how was it for you, John? 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Yes. It's a must stop.

It was my favorite place for sure. And that's not just for photographers, just to, just to be in, in that town and, and especially where we stayed above the town, it's like I, I just wanted to sit around and look and walk into town and it's such a spectacular town. Not only visually. Uh, but there's a piece to it.

Yes. There's a very peaceful, kinda laid back Yeah. Feeling. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: I, I, I said that all the time. The culture is very different. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: It's very different. And it's great just to walk around and to talk to people and [00:06:00] see all the cats there. Yes. We we're, we're cat lovers, so we stopped at so many keys are running around there.

It's great. Well, actually everywhere in Morocco. Yes. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Especially in, I call them paparazzis. They follow you everywhere. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Yeah, that's right. And then of course, visually it's, it's absolutely spectacular. And I do have photos which I'll, I'll share the, the, the color of the cobalt Yeah. That they use, the raw cobalt that they use in dyes.

Yeah. Is amazing. And that adds to that, that that real sense of harmony and peace there as well. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Absolutely. Uh. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: The shops are fun. It's a totally different vibe than it 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: is 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Fes, Marakkech. Absolutely. Yes. So I recommend it highly. I recommend not doing what I did, which is not spending enough time there. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Yeah. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: I'd spend at least two nights 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: there.

Yeah. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: At least. Totally. And just the hotel where we stayed at was so beautiful. It's, it's gotta [00:07:00] be a real, 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: it's a, it's readjustment. Yes. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Readjustment. Yeah. Yes. Oh, it's beautiful. It was just an oasis. Yeah. It was my favorite place of all the places, and I could have easily stayed there multiple days. Yeah. It was a really good entry point into the culture and into, uh, Morocco.

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: That's amazing. That's amazing. Just, just to add something to, to you, John, in shift shown, I would say. 98% of the stays are riad stays. And the one you stayed in, it's, it's one of the high-end riads, which is incredible. So, uh, tell us a little bit more about your visit. And before that I want to just highlight, you said that you are, you know, you're interested in history and Egypt.

Everybody knows Egypt. The history, it's, it's super popular, but also when you go to to Tangier, the downtown Tangier is about 3000 years old. Mm-hmm. Then, then when you look at Chefchaouen, for example, it was established [00:08:00] and built in the 15th century, you know, right after the, the Spanish acquisition in, I believe in 1459.

Right. So there's still, you know, you are, you're right there in terms of history. So it's just, it's beyond the incredible. What else can you share with us, uh, about Chefchaouen, please, John? 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Well. It's a great walking town. It's easy to walk from where we stayed, uh, down into town and back. I've seen some people complain, well, where we stayed about the stairs.

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: But yes, 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: it's hard for me to imagine because I live on a hill. Yes. And I have a ton of stairs just to get to my front door and back up. So I'm kind of used to it. Yes. But it didn't bother me and it would be challenging for someone that has. Disability, you know, movement challenges. So, absolutely, absolutely.

However, if if you don't, it's, I highly recommend it. And when you said high end, I, I agree. And the difference is high end in Morocco, price [00:09:00] wise is not high end. Oh, yeah. I mean, yes, yes. It's, it's like basic for, for Europe. Yeah, totally. As far as the pricing goes. 'cause the exchange rate is so good. Yeah.

Yeah. Although now I, I don't know about that. With our, it's, 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: it's still, the dollar is still strong. It's, you still get, yeah. You still get, you know, still get a lot. Yeah. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Yes, yes. But, uh, you know, my, my feeling on all this is if I'm only gonna go there a few times or spend limited time, and it's a difference between a hundred dollars a night.

Now I know I'm talking privilege here, but I'm not a, a wealthy guy. I'm barely. You know, not that way, but, but I, for me, it's about the experience. Yes, totally. And, and so spending a little bit more to have that experience is great. I don't play golf. I don't go fishing. I don't, I'm boring. I don't go to theater, so I'm not spending a lot of money [00:10:00] during the year.

All my money goes to travel. 'cause for me, it's the memories and experiences, not the material things that I. I can't bring into the next life with me. Absolutely. But I can bring my memories and I can share those. So yes. Travel is critical for me. Absolutely. Absolutely. Sorry to get off on. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: No, no, no. It's, it's, I say the same thing to, to a lot of listeners, to, to people when they book with us that $50 can really make a difference where you stay.

And we have our network that we work with. And, and also, I wanna mention something, it's a little bit also of the subject, but, you know, ratings and reviews in Morocco, they're different than the US. Uh, in Morocco, they don't really matter much, but what matters is the relationship you have with, with those accommodations, those yards, those hotels for us as suppliers or tour operators.

So you may stay at a five star hotel or a yard, but the experience will not be as good as staying somewhere, you know, just very modest. It's very tricky. In Morocco, almost everything is kind of unique and different. So the other question that I have for [00:11:00] you, John, were there any challenges? Or rewards to photography in, in Morocco compared to other places that you have visited, for example, Egypt, like cultural difference.

Everything's a 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: challenge in Egypt, so that's hard to compare it against. It's a beautiful challenge and that's a whole nother conversation. I actually co-led a tour there. Oh, wow. Last, uh, 2023. 'cause I'm in, I, I, I teach hermetic Arts and alchemy and things like that. That's amazing. So yeah, it, it's a very friendly photo.

I mean. I wasn't worried about my gear. Yeah. At any point I don't carry a lot of stuff. I, I pack really light, uh, photography wise, that's a whole nother conversation if you wanna know about what I used. But, but I, I packed compact, but high quality, but I didn't feel at all stressed about safety or my, and, and the vistas and the things that I saw.

We're incredible. And, [00:12:00] and by the way, we're just starting this conversation and, you know, there are a lot of other photographers, which we'll talk about when we, when, as we move down, you know, into f et cetera. Absolutely. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Yeah, we did the tour back in 2023 and I, I honestly had no idea that the gear is heavy.

It's a lot of gear, and then it's very, very expensive, so. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, when, when, when you're planning a trip to Morocco as a photographer, what are some of the tips that you have, John, for example, for first time photographers, visitor Morocco, whether it's trip show in Marrakesh, Ji, or just say maybe in one city or in the desert.

So what kind of advice would you give them, please, John? 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Well, okay. If we start with the most basic iPhones, take fricking amazing pictures now. I mean, you can go with, especially with one of the new iPhones with the bigger zoom. Yes. And a wide angle lens. They have high pixel count now you'll be just fine.

Yeah. [00:13:00] But if you're more of a detail and fanatic like I am. You can go to the next mid range is basically what I use, which is a mirrorless camera, so the body's small, but I can still choose lenses with high quality glass. That are also small, so it's easy to carry in a pack around my shoulder, not even a backpack, just a basic pack, and I can get away with stuff.

If you really wanted to get that experience, but not do the separate lens thing, then just use the, what's called the kit lens, which is usually a zoom lens. It comes with these. And the, the image quality, what you can do with it as far as edit it afterwards to really coax the most detail and contrast out of it is time consuming.

Yes. But it's worth it. Yeah. For me anyway. But again, I, I took pictures on my iPhone that are [00:14:00] spectacular. Yes. And what's great about that is I end up using that, honestly, way more than my camera, because like at night and I go out to dinner and we're walking in the streets, I'm not dragging my camera around.

Yeah. Of course. I, I use my iPhone for all that stuff. Yeah. And it's great. Yeah, so 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Absolutely, absolutely. So take 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: a lot of pictures, you can. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Yes, yes. It 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: doesn't cost. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Um, yeah, I remember the, uh, the iPhone 16. It's definitely, that's one of the biggest differences between the 15 and 16 is, you know, for content creators for.

People, they just, they're on the go. They wanna create content and on the spot, on demand and share it with their, with their audience. So iPhone is definitely highly recommended. What else can you share with us about Chefchaouen or we should move to, to fast? 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Let's move between Chefchaouen and Fez. Now again, history wise, I had to stop in Volubilis.

Yes. Oh my goodness. Had to stop there. There was no way, it was not gonna stop there. For any of you folks that are in my age group that saw the movie Patton, [00:15:00] it's Volubilis. Yes. Part of it. Where the Carthaginians, yes. Were, although it was a Roman town, actually. Yes. But there, there were some evidence of Phoenician before that and such.

It's pretty well preserved. There's some great mosaics there and it's relatively quiet. Yeah. I mean, going to Roman ruins. In Spain or in Italy especially, they tend to be very, very crowded. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Yeah, it is. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: This is very open. And again, for photographers, it's great. Yeah. And I, I, I have a lot of photos from there and it really gives you a sense if you're not traveling all over the world and you wanna get a sense of, of seeing what a Roman town was like, it's absolutely worth the stop.

It's right on the way. Anyway, so, and speaking of which, there's good wineries around there too. Yes. Now I didn't stop at the wineries, but I had the wines in Fes [00:16:00] and elsewhere, so, yeah. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Yes. You know, just to add a little bit to Volubilis, Volubilisfor me, when I first visited, it was mind blowing.

You know, as kids, we, you know, in school we study the history and, and we see the pictures, but nothing really like. When you set foot on it and, and you can see the, the tracks from, you know, from the tires of, uh, the Romans at that time. And, you know, just like you said, the mosaic. And, and it just looks like a city.

And we were very fortunate and lucky. We had guides every time we visit and we get the explanation where this is, you know, the, you know, when they. I mean, olive oil is definitely, it's one of the most important for them. So you can see where they have made olive oil. You can see the, we call it the pressure, the the natural pressure where they make the, the natural olive oil and it's pressed cold and, and all that stuff.

And you see the first one, the second one, the third one, and then you see where they, they used to bathe then the history, the arc. Then, then, then the other part, we can see about five pillars standing. That's, that's the [00:17:00] courthouse. Mm-hmm. The history is just amazing and, and like. John said, it's on the way.

If you're from first going to, to Chefchaouen. It's, it's a quick stop. An hour and a half, maybe max, you'll do an amazing, amazing site tour. Yeah. Also, keep in mind, in Volubilis you also have, in case if it's hot, which most of the time it is, you have the museum, uh, and the museum again, in terms of education is just, it's really, really worth the visit.

Great. Yeah, 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: and uh, there was also another. Little town on the way that we stopped for lunch, which was my second favorite meal. I don't know what they do with chicken there, but it's, it's unbelievable. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Is it, is it, it's unbelievable. I have, I mean, if I have to guess there too, but I don't want to guess, but I'll say, is it on the hill?

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Uh, 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: or is it Meknes? Is it, is it Meknes? 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Yes. Meknes. Thank you.

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Meknes is one of the, uh, the imperial cities and also when we speak about wine, they have one of the [00:18:00] biggest wineries in Morocco, in Meknes. So tell us a little bit about that please, John. Alright, so how was the chicken? 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: The chicken is a and I, so I got a half a chicken and they, of course, there's the skewers, which are famous there.

The ground lamb, the beef, the chicken though is just. It, it's on those, those open flame grills right on the street. And I think they, they probably got the chicken, uh, that day most likely. Wow. 'cause I did go to one of the open air markets, if not the chicken's probably in the backyard. Yeah. Um, so it's, it's amazingly fresh.

Sorry for those vegetarians out there. Vegetarian food's good there too. If you want the tan. Um. Yeah, but I'm a chicken guy and, and it was just transcendent. Yeah. Yeah. I keep talking about, my wife goes, okay, we're going back just for you to get the chicken. So 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: most of it is organic and that's what makes it different in the taste.

JOHN HERNANDEZ: It's so juicy. Yeah. And the [00:19:00] flavor profile with the spices they use. Unbelievable. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Absolutely 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: unbelievable. So that was a great unexpected stop. For us. And then we, we went to Fez after that, which is the, where we ended up at that part of the 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: trip. Okay, great. So when you stop at Fez, do you remember where you have stayed, John?

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Uh, the Palais Amani. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Oh. Um, oh my goodness. I, my, oh, oh my God. Gorgeous. It is, it is beyond gorgeous. We visited it last time. I loved it. The rooms are incredible. They're really, really big. The rooms are, the courtyard is amazing, and it's just that, that Oh, wow. You, yeah. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Yeah. Oh, it was a beautiful hotel.

That's incredible. And it was an old palace. It was converted. Very, very peaceful. Yeah. The rooms were wonderful. And there's a traditional Hamam Yes. In the bottom. Yeah. Of the underground there, which was great. Which I did. And it's easy walking distance to [00:20:00] everything in town. Really easy walking distance.

Yeah, and that's another thing I like to do when I travel. I try and stay in places where I'm not having to take a cab to get to somewhere where then I wanna start walking. Absolutely. I like to stay in places where I can walk a lot. And this was one of those places. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: That's incredible. That's incredible.

Yeah. Um, what else can you tell us about your experience in terms of photography? And I know Fes it's, Fes is amazing. You can easily get lost and there's so many things to see and do. Yeah. How much time you did you spend in Fes and John and also two, 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: two or three, two or three days? I can't remember exactly how many.

And how did you, okay, 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: go ahead. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Yeah, it correct. You're, you're correct. You can get lo so there's a lot of winding streets. A lot of 'em are covered because of the heat. Yes. And there's thousands of shots. Thousands. And it's a different experience. [00:21:00] From, again, I, I read in advance. Oh, it can be, you know, it could be aggressive, the shopkeepers.

It just was not, yeah, 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: no, 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: I mean, again, maybe I'm jaded 'cause I'm coming from the markets in, in Cairo, which that's a different level. Yeah. But this was, to me, it was totally good. Uh, lot of things to see in there, just for photography's sake. Old mixed with new. Yeah. You know, you've got, you know, lots of kitties.

Yes, yes. But easy to walk around beautiful shops. And again, the colors. Yes. You know. Now, now we're getting into more of the greens and the reds. Yes. In Fes, which were, which were beautiful. I can't remember if that was called the Green City or the something. It's, 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: uh, the, the, the green is the color of the religion, which is Islam, and then the blue is the color of the city of Fes.

So when you go and they call it, you know, Fes, which is the, the big, um, arch [00:22:00] door, um, if mm-hmm. Walking into the city or downtown, or the market or the souk, you'll see that it's gonna. You know, kind of, I don't remember greenish, but then when you walk in and look back, you see the color is different.

Again, fast is one of the Imperial cities. Um mm-hmm. So when you do a tour like this, we normally call it the Imperial City Tour. So you have Meknes, you have Fes, you have Marrakech, which is the, the, the three. Then Rabat is the the fourth one. So in terms of experience, we always recommend first a minimum of two to three days.

So obviously you have done it right. Obviously you stay in a riad, in my opinion, one of the best places in Fes. It's so close to everywhere. And then can you share what else have you done in terms of Yeah, photography in fast and, and how was it stimulated? And you said the colors, but I want you to tell me a little bit more, because there's the colors, there's the jewelry, there's the leather, there's just, it's just the combination of, you know, um, eye candy if you would, for the eyes.

So tell us a little bit more please. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: It's [00:23:00] the, the street scenes are worth. Absolutely worth for. For photography. Yeah. The leather. So I went crazy. We went to the oldest leather tan. I think it's still in the world. Yeah, it's still surviving. Where you get to see outside all the dye pits. Yes. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: The tenders, the 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: various colors and how they treat and tan the leather.

And I'll just say this, if you're going to Morocco. Bring money and buy leather. That's all I have to say. I, I went crazy there because the prices were so good. I've got beautiful belts. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Yes, 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: beautiful handmade leather belts that were like $12 us. I mean, it was crazy. And I, I, I bought several of 'em. Yeah.

There. And I, you know, we bought a bunch of other stuff too, but, but the leather there is just beautiful and the leather working. And you can do. You can do a tour of that old leather, uh, tanning [00:24:00] facility, and that's where I purchased some things. But there's a, there's leather all over. There's whole leather districts.

Yeah. In f there's districts for different types of things. And then the ceramic, the clay. Yes. Now we start getting into seeing a lot of that. So there's shops there that, you know, where you can see them making the 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Yes. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: The, the small. Tanin. Yes. Which I bought a few of those and, and, and bigger things. You can actually buy whole fountains there.

Yes. I mean, it's crazy what they, they do and the mosaic work. They do. Yes. So there's so much to, to, to photograph and so much to see. And the food was great. We went to some, we went to another palace for a, a dinner. That was in even a more beautiful courtyard than the, is 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: it fellas middle be 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: unbelievable, I'm sure.

And that's when I really started exploring the wine. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Yes. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Uh, from Morocco. So jumping to that topic very quickly, I'm also a wine guy. [00:25:00] There's some maps of Burgundy behind me. Oh wow. 'cause I do some wine brokering for some wineries in, in France and. I didn't really know what to expect. We had just come from Spain, which is another yes.

Favorite wine destination for me. I was very pleasantly surprised. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Yes. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: I, I, I really was. There was, uh, the white varieties are similar to a Sauvignon blanc. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Oh, wow. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: They're approachable, they're drinkable. They've got great balance, great food wines, and I had one of the reds from, um, it was also very, very good.

It paired beautifully with, uh, the heartier dishes, the chicken things. Yes. And those types of things. So, and the wine is very well priced. Now, of course, Morocco was a French colony, so you can get French wine there too, if you want. It's a little bit more money, but not terrible. In Egypt, the, the French wine is marked up [00:26:00] 420%.

Oh my goodness. Markup. Oh, wow. Uh, because they want you to buy their wine. Yes. Which is not. Of course the same Moroccan wine course. I'll just leave it at that. But the Moroccan wine was quite good. It was a very pleasant supply prize. I was totally, totally happy with it. I didn't even need to to buy French wine.

Yeah. At all. So if you're a wine drinker, try the wine, you know, and my, my whole theory when I travel is to really en mesh myself in the local culture and try the food. And try the local cuisine local to that geographical region even as much as possible. So I really get a good feel of that. Yeah. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: I just want to add something else to what you have said, John.

You know, wine is, is widely consumed in Morocco and they say it for the tourists, but it's also majorly concerned by by the locals as well. And there's different types. Uh, Morocco is shipped globally. It is sold here in the us. They have few [00:27:00] types. Uh, I've seen it in specs and, and a few other places.

Mm-hmm. Um, also, when we talk about wine, I wanna talk about a little bit about the cuisine of Fest now. Mm-hmm. You started in Tangier, then you went to Chefchaoen, then you came to to Fes. These are three different cities, but they can be three different countries with three different cultures and vibes.

Mm-hmm. And also cuisine so fast when we talk about. The, the Moroccan cuisine in fast. It's very different. Now. We're talking high end, we're talking, we say fa the Sy people, people from fast, they eat with their eyes. So everything has to look amazing. You know, it's different than marque. Marrakech, we're known for street food, you know, we just wanna fill our belly and, and feel, you know, full.

Mm-hmm. So tell us about the experience of food. And wine as well in fashion. How different from Tangier and Chefchaouen, if you can please John. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: The local food scene is different. I mean there are some similarities of [00:28:00] course, but the type of spices they use, type of things, type of local vegetables that are there, that's really a big, can be a big difference.

'cause the climate's Yeah. Changed, like you said in those areas. And so the fruits change a little bit. And I found mostly that, that on the meat dishes, the, the different spices were more local to that area. Yeah. And the preparation. But I, you know, for me, I, I love the grilled thing, so I always would gra mostly gravitate to that, which I found the food great everywhere.

The bread, that's another thing that is a little different too. There are some great bread Yes. In these 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: areas. Absolutely. Absolutely. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Really. And, and that's one of the great things about walking, doing the street food because there's like fresh baked bread and all kinds of fun stuff there too. So.

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Absolutely. Absolutely. So beyond photography and wine, John, what were [00:29:00] some of your favorite experiences or places you have visited that you have not mentioned yet? 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Okay, so let's, let's jump around, uh, just a little bit. So I, we went to Marrakesh and, um, for me, the surprise there, this was a finding in the Secret Garden.

They had this place called The Secret Garden. Yes. Uh, was. One of the best coffee houses. Yes. Not, not one of probably the best coffee house by far. I've been to, it's right out of something, out of the Victorian age, I would say. It's called Dar El Bacha. And if you're going to Marrakesh, if you don't go there and you like coffee.

You've missed some, a great experience. Yes. I I, I love coffee. Yeah, it's, they bring in coffees from all over the, the Arabian Peninsula in, in Africa, and they're really, really well done and they serve proper [00:30:00] cream with the coffee and just to sit and have a coffee. Plus the food there is great too. They have great food in that place, but the the scene absolutely go there.

I, I, I'd go back simply for that. Literally it was, it was incredible. You can buy coffee there and bring it back with you or have it shipped. Yeah. It's not inexpensive coffee, let's just say, but it's an experience. Yes, yes. To sit there and have, and have a coffee at a kosong or something in that, in that environment.

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Absolutely. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Um, there's also Majorelle Gardens and Museum. Yes. And Marrakech has got beautiful cobalt, blues and colors and it was a, a great photography spot there. Oh, for sure. Because I have, the flowers were beautiful in that place and just the scenes with the ponds. So it was a feast for the eye. My, so it was really interesting because.

My wife is a color person. She was inside the [00:31:00] museum quite a bit, and I was outside yes, taking pictures of these flowers. So we had something to do for, she was looking at all the fashion stuff, which doesn't, 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: that's amazing. Do much 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: for me. But yeah. But the scene that the beauty of the place did so.

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Absolutely. Absolutely. So the museum you're talking about, John, is, is called the Berber Museum and also the YSL Garden. It is. It's, it's definitely a must stop if you visit Marrakech. Yeah. If you're a photographer, you are really, really, really missing out. If you don't stop at, you know, normally the site visit for regular folks could be between 30 minutes, 45 minutes, but for a photographer it's gonna be a little bit longer because you wanna capture those moments.

We have visited. In the afternoon right before they close. And I mean, the light from the sun, it was just, it was a sunny, beautiful, beautiful day. And I, I see the pictures. I mean, they were just amazing, amazing, amazing pictures. So, you know, as a photographer, it doesn't really matter the time that you visit, but just [00:32:00] visit.

Mm-hmm. And also wanna add something else to what he has said, you know, about the coffee, about, you know, the, the mosaic, the ceramic, and then the leather. Anything you buy in Morocco can be shipped. To literally anywhere. So just keep that in mind. When you shop, sometimes you, you have one, you know, one piece of luggage or two, they may not be enough, but they can also be shipped.

If you're doing everything in one city, one shop can ship everything for you, just in case. So, and they, they use FedEx. FedEx is. Popularly used, but the most one, uh, is DHL. Then there's a carrier that's not in the US but it's in Morocco as well. So those are the, the, the, the 2D HL is definitely number one used in Morocco when it comes to international shipping.

And you can ship the wine by the cases and stuff like that, you know. So, um, and it takes different times depending on, on the things that you're shipping. Like you said, water fountains, obviously it's gonna take a few weeks, you know. Mm-hmm. It could take between two to six weeks probably. So just, uh, you know, if you're doing the shipping, [00:33:00] just, just check and double check, uh, with the vendors.

Yeah. Yeah. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Great. So then, uh, from fas, we made our way. So, so, and, and Marrakech and uh, there we stayed at the riad , uh, Bel, I believe Terra's called. It was right on the edge of the old town and very again, very easy to walk. Um, be prepared however. If you're coming from Fes to Marrakesh, it's a very different vibe.

There's, it's. The modern town of Marrakesh could be anywhere. Yeah. I mean, it's like LA Yeah, basically, yeah. It's very modern. There's a, there's some great restaurants out there, and then you get into the old town and it's very, very different. Again, it's very much. Like Fes, except just, just be aware there's a lot of motorcycles in that town.

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Yes, yes. And you don't 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: have that in Fez for some reason, so it's a little bit more of a just, you know, making sure and walking cautiously. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Absolutely. I, I wanna add something to that, John, if you may. Yeah. [00:34:00] Um, Marrakech has definitely, it's the motorcycles and bicycles, you know, with the horses, the carriages, especially the, the motorcycles are really, really, really outta hand.

And that can be a challenge. In terms of theft, it can be a challenge in terms of many things, but also what I wanted to mention, when you talked about earlier, John, you talked about fast, and it's a little, it is laid back city. It is. Nobody will hustle and bustle you. Nobody will bother your photography and doing all these kind of things, but Marrakech is a little different.

It's a little bit more aggressive, so you have to be. A little bit careful, especially when you, you're handling and, and, and, and having your gear with you, and it's expensive. Somebody can snatch it on a motorcycle. You never catch 'em. So it's, you have to, you have to be there to be careful. We're not discouraging.

We just, you know. Yeah. Just be cautious. Yes. Yeah, definitely. I mean, the 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: motorcycles literally come right on you. I mean, it's, yes, yes. So it was not my preferred city for that reason, for walking. But it's worth it to go just for the coffee shop and the, and, and [00:35:00] the, the, the big square is, is, is massive and I, I actually played with some of the local musicians there just for fun.

Oh, wow. But there's food stalls, like tons of them. Yeah. You know, fresh fruit juices. And also Marrakech is a good point because it's easy to get to via air. Yeah. Yes. And then we, we went. From there to the valley, which is beautiful. The, uh, I don't know if it's pronounced Ourika Valley. Yes. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Ouirka Valley. That's quite, yeah, that's quite, 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: yeah.

Towards the High Atlas Mountains. And that was just gorgeous. Yeah, yeah. Beautiful places. We stopped at a local small town. And we had, uh, tea with some of the locals there in their home. And it was, it was a beautiful experience. Wonderful place. Yeah. And, uh, then we stopped at one of the local markets. I think that was in Aghmad.

Ah, 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: yes. Yes. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: [00:36:00] And that was an outdoor market, I mean, everything from blacksmith. Yes. Was there to, you know, to a whole, you know, vegetables just piled everywhere. Yeah. I mean, really of, of course, organic, fresh, yes. Really nice vegetables. Everything there is insanely fresh. And the, the market was, was, uh, a fun photography experience as well.

And the valley, by the way, was absolutely spectacular. Yes. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: What, what, do you remember the time of the year that he went to the valley, John? 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: It was the fall, so yes, so we went and saw the, there's red cliffs there, like there are in Arizona, and uh, it's beautiful. Really is great. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: The time that he went is really, really good.

I'm talking about in terms of busy summertime, it's, it's beautiful because it's cold, but it can get extremely packed. So, so basically you really did it the right way. And then can you tell us a little bit about that experience with the s with the local family, because a lot of, a lot of tourists, they [00:37:00] don't get to experience that.

And that's, you know, that that leaves you with a lot of memories, a lot of things that stay with you. I mean, it's a short stage, short visit, but can you, can you just tell us, you know, something that stayed with you? Yeah, so, 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: so they had their own olive grove and we talked about olive oil. The olives were amazing.

They were great. The people were very, very hospitable. I had a chance to just to spend some private time walking around with them. Yeah. The sun and um, you know, just talking about daily life and the things that they, they go through and it's very similar to us. You know, it's, you know, gosh, do I wanna, you know, when I'm outta college, am I gonna come back home or am I gonna get out?

We had, it was a great conversation, which by the way, a shout out to our guide Idris, who was with us on the whole trip we had. Hours and hours while the ladies were doing things. Yeah. Of private conversations on, on [00:38:00] diving deep into Islam and into the whole culture. And it was, it was the price of admission for me.

Yeah. Just to, to be able to really spend that kind of time and, and, and make those connections and bridge. Not to get too philosophically, but that's the only way this planet's gonna survive if we can get out of our own way and start connecting with folks from different cultures and learning. 'cause ultimately, we're all.

Want the same thing? 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Chip. Okay. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: I'll get back to the chip now. But that was a really rich part of the chip. So spending the time with the family Yeah. And, and having the, the famous mint tea. Yes. But brewed from a home instead of in a restaurant. It was a very different experience.

Of course, of course. I said the olives and the bread. Oh my God. They were incredible. Yeah. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: And then the stuff that they put, you know, either olive oil, butter, some nuts, almonds. You know, almonds. Yes. Thank you for reminding me. It's just [00:39:00] amazing. The hospitality is just something else. And even for us, you know, when we, when we go to, to the mountains, when we go to villages, those small details, they still stay with us.

They, they touch us in a way that it's just, it's incredible. So 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: it's incredible. And that's, that's, that's the whole. Reason to, for me to travel is to have those experiences that, that I'll take to my grave with me. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Absolutely. You know, a new 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: TV I won't be taking to my grave with me. So this is again for that.

Um, so after that we went, we went to Essaouira. Yes, yes, yes. And um, again, for photography, there's. They paint all the boats, fishing boats blue. So it's really a, a photogenic place. And now, now there's a lot more seafood. So now the food, again, is different. And uh, it was similar to Spanish food, the way they prepared the seafood.

Yes, a lot of olive oil, grilled [00:40:00] sardines, fantastic octopus. All the things I love in seafood with there. Um. It's a very easy town to walk around as well. It's very easy. And there are some really interesting buildings I took pictures of there. Yes. And uh, the shops are even more laid back. Uh, there was actually a good gelato shop right on the main square.

Uh, one of the few ones that I found in Morocco. It's, you know, Morocco's not known for gelato. Yes. But that one was quite good. So that was a, a nice, fun surprise. So, and then, uh, we ended up our trip at the second most magical place outside of Chefchaouen, which was. And the, the afa, is it Agafay Desert? 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Agaday, which is in the outskirts of Marques, but also before, before moving to Aga fi.

John, I I have couple questions for you, please, for Essaouira in, so did you [00:41:00] do a day trip to Essaouiraor did you stay Oh, uh, 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: no, we stayed overnight. Overnight. Okay. Uh, in fact, I think we stayed nights, two 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: nights. Okay. Do you remember the place, where do you have stayed on? Essaouira is is a small coastal city with a lot of history.

They call it the windy city of Morocco because it's always windy. And it's windy. Yeah. The weather is different. If it's hot in Morocco, it's cold in Essaouira, so it's kinda strange in a way, but it's absolutely a must. It's well known for many, many things. Argan oil is absolutely one of them. And also, yeah, we did that.

Yeah. The other thing is they have filmed. Uh, John Wick, I believe three, uh, with Halle Berry in the, the, that hotel. It's actually in Essaouira, and we talked about it, uh, in one of the, uh, the live q and a that we did, uh, where to stay in Morocco, correct. A few months ago. And then the Game of Throne. They also have filmed the Game of Throne in Essaouira as well.

So the, the, the visit to is Essaouira, like John said, it's walking distance. You can do it in maybe an hour and 15 minutes, an hour and 30 minutes. But the, the shops, uh, [00:42:00] is Essaouirais known for its wood. The wood comes from a nearby for, it's called tya wood, which is, um, you can tell the difference because of the smell and it does not really get affected by the sun throughout.

Um, you know, if you buy a gift or something that it's made that of tya wood, the shape will stay for years and years to come versus any other words in Morocco. So. Tell us about your experience a little bit more in Essaouira Please, John. Um, 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: we stayed at the, I did find where we stayed that, the dial.

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Okay. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Okay. It was, I would say for me, the bottom part of the hotel was, was great. Yeah. But compared to where we had been staying Yes. On the trip, it wasn't to that level. Level, it was fine. Yes. I'll just say it was fine. But you know, if you want that, that other next level. It wasn't that. It wasn't that.

That's all I'll say. Okay. But it was very [00:43:00] well situated. It's super easy to walk everywhere from there. It's a small town. Yeah. At least the old town's a small town. Yeah. Now the town spreads out everywhere else, but um. But the all town is very easy to walk. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Absolutely. Absolutely. John, super easy to walk.

So the, I wanna add something else. Um, you know, when you do your tour in Morocco, um, the experience overall is gonna be incredible, but I I, I totally agree with John. A hundred percent. Not all the accommodations are gonna be the same. Especially when you go to Fas, Fes has the best riad. That's what they're known for.

The riad is just they're next level. Then comparing to somewhere else, you go in the southern part of Morocco where there's not a lot of tourist and it's not touristy. And there's not a lot of investment. Yeah, you'll stay at a nice riyad, but it's not gonna look anything, you know? So sometimes it, it's kind of really unfair to compare them in a way.

But, um, in Marrakesh, they have nice riyad in, so they do. Uh, [00:44:00] but in other places there's some limitations. So yes, you'll have an amazing experience, but just don't have that expectation that every regard is gonna be above and beyond expected, because it's just not. Yeah. So. But the overall stay is gonna be amazing.

So 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: it will, so and then, so we ended up in the desert. Yes. And that was incredible. I mean, I loved that. And that's another place I wish I would've stayed longer. Okay. That 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: was my next question. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: I really wish I would've stayed longer there. It was absolutely magical. And, um, where we stayed, I talk about bread, so they were.

Making bread in the open fire oven, which is outside. Outside. Yes. And then, you know, and the woman that was making the bread just took it outta the oven. Oh, here have some, I mean, it was, it was transcend. Yes. And it's, it's just beautiful out there in the desert. And um, [00:45:00] and that's where I got to sit in with the Berber.

Yes. The local Berber musicians. Yes. And, uh, I'm a drummer and I asked if I could sit in with them. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Oh, they would love it. They 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: handed one of their djembes and they, you know, they don't know like, who's this guy? And like, does he understand our rhythms and stuff, which I do, but they didn't know that. And so I, I sat in and then they won't let me go.

Um, like, like five songs, tunes later. I, I finally had to say I can't, my hands aren't used. I'm a Yes. Play mainly with sticks, but I do play hand drum. Yeah. I couldn't, my hands aren't conditioned for that amount of time. Yeah. I said I had to stop, but they were, they loved it and I loved it and it was, uh, a magical 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: experience.

Wow. That's incredible. But 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: the place with the pool and the tent and the tents and the accommodations were really great. Food was great. Um. It was just, it was just a wonderful thing. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Oh, wow. So you bring in [00:46:00] so many memories, John. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: So, and, and it's, and what's great is it's, I think it was within less than an hour from the airport.

Yeah. Yeah. It, so we had to leave the next day and it was easy. Yes. John to the Mar airport now, so Yes, 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: absolutely. So I would've 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: absolutely stayed two nights. It was. I just didn't know. Yes. I would've stayed more time there than in Ware because it was so peaceful. Yes. And, and, yeah. Good for the soul. Yeah, 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: the Aga Fi uh, desert is in the outskirts of Marrakech.

It depends where you're staying. In Marrakech. It could be between an hour, an hour, 15 minutes, 45 minutes. It just depends. A few years ago, it used to be far from the city, but Marrakechhas expanded so far, so much. Huge. Um, that's huge. In, in, in some parts it could be like 20 minutes away if you're in that part of town.

Uh mm-hmm. But normally for a lot of people who don't have enough time to do Marrakechdesert experience, they do agafay and it's rightfully [00:47:00] so. It's a lot of fun. The food is amazing and you can do so much stuff. Mm-hmm. That place is getting bigger and bigger. Eventually it's gonna be its own city at some point.

Um, in my opinion. There's a lot of camps there. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of camps and, and they're really fancy. They're really luxury and really nice. You can do anything from quad, from camera, ride, horse. Right. Um, so much stuff you can do. It's just, it's, it's really, really, really incredible. And then you have your privacy.

It's, it's just your camp, it's just you, so it's, it's very unique and intimate experience. Mm-hmm. What else can you tell us, please, John? 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Well, I mean, yes, there's, there's a lot to do, but I, a place like that. The only thing I wanted to do is to, to read, sit by the pool. Yes. And not do anything because there was so much stimulus in the rest of the trip that this was nice way to cap the trip just to, to be in that.

So the beginning and shown same, [00:48:00] you know, and then at the end. So I thought that was a really. Nice way. I didn't plan it necessarily to do it that way, but it, it ended up being a really nice way to, to cap the trip on both. Absolutely. Absolutely. And the end. So yeah, I highly recommend it, especially if you're going.

Tam Marrakech and you don't have the time. 'cause there are no flights to the southern desert. Yes. So you have to drive there and it's, it's about eight hours just to get to the desert. Yes. And then however long once you're there to get to the camp. Yes. Now that's a whole different experience. That again, is on my list Yes.

To do for the next time. Um. But we just didn't have time Absolutely. To spend all that time. Absolutely. Time just to get there. And this was really easy, like I said. And so you spend a night in Marrakesh and walk around and go to the coffee house and see the museum and, and then you go out into the desert.

And then you'll fly back to your destination from there. Yeah, it was great. Absolutely. [00:49:00] Spend two nights though. Yes. Don't spend one night. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Definitely. You'll definitely, you'll 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: hate yourself. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: So based on your experience, John, what advice would you give to the first time travelers to Morocco to help him make the most of their trip?

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Yeah. It, it really depends on how much time you have. Um, so flying into Tangier was easy then having a guide is good. Driving to Essaouira is a must. Yeah. And then through Volubilis is a must to. Fez is a must. And then if you don't have a lot of time, then fly from Fez to Marrakech. Yes. Spend a day in Marrakesh and a couple of nights in the desert and fly back to your destination from the Marrakesh airport.

Absolutely. That's a really not too stressful trip. Uh, and if you had more time, you can, you know, spend more time doing what we did. Time out in the High Atlas Mountains and you know, a few other things. And if you had a lot more time, then go to the Southern desert. Yeah, absolutely. And have that experience.

I'm, I, I, [00:50:00] I'm, I'm sad I missed that and there was just no way I could squeeze that in. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Absolutely. That this is, this is a great advice, John. And also just want to add something else. Uh, when people do travel to Morocco, they don't, they look at Morocco on the map. They don't think Morocco is big, but it's big.

It's big. It's big. Yeah, it's big. Especially when it comes to driving and now there are flights, you're right from fast to Marrakech that you can fly directly, which saves you depending maybe nine hours, maybe six hours, depending which way you're going to, to Marrakech. There's another highway that it's gonna be built for a freeway directly for Marrakech to fast, which is gonna help tremendously as well, but nobody knows how long that's gonna take.

Also, you could fly in. Again, from Fes to Rashia, which is the, the gate to, to mea if you would. It's few hours drive, but then again, there, there's a little bit more options if you have time to do the southern part of Morocco. If you don't, the itinerary that John mentioned is just, it's incredible. It hit the right spots.

You spend the [00:51:00] right amount. Time in, in almost all of them, which is just amazing. So, um, is there anything you wish you had known or done differently during your trip to Morocco, John? 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Yeah, I would've, I would've adjusted the amount of time in ESA where in saw and added that 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: to the desert. Okay. I see. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: I would've spent one more night in, in, yes.

So maybe I would've cut if I only had that amount of time, I would've taken that time from Marrakesh and put it into. For two nights. Yeah. So ending beginning two nights. Ending two nights. Two nights, yes. And that just because it adds a little bit more relaxing. Components of the but, but 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: also because you are a photographer and, and we have done, we work with a lot of photographers and it's just, we learn so much from them and it's amazing.

Amazing. But with, with the, you cannot rush anything when you, you do in a photography tour, the itinerary is the same, the locations are the same, but the eyes that are seeing everything else. Are different, you know? Yeah. [00:52:00] So it's just, you have to give it that time. And you know, some tools you have to start a little bit earlier than normal because of that golden hour in the morning or that golden hour, you know, it's just, you have to capture the right moment, the right picture, the right, you know, it's just, it's incredible.

So there's so much detail that goes into it, but again, it's, it just looks like on paper. But it's very different and the difference in the details and, and in the lens. So, uh, it's, and being in the culture. Absolutely. Absolutely. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: That's a critical part of this. So, 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: as we're getting close to the, to this episode, this has been amazing.

I'm John, I'm, I am super grateful. Um, um, this, well, thank you for having me. Oh my God. This is, is there any other questions that I should have asked you, John, and for some reason didn't or forgot to ask you? Please. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: I mean, the only other, maybe other point I'll make, um, is it's for folks that might have gone to Egypt, uh, in the past and have a.

A lens that [00:53:00] North Africa is like that. It's, it's not, yeah. It's just a totally different culture. I mean, it's completely different. Yeah. Yes, there are some similarities, but it's very different. And, um, you know, I love Egypt. It's one of my, and I'll be going back when the museum is done, hopefully in my lifetime, uh, the final museum.

And I'll do some more trips there because that's a whole separate thing, but it's, it's very different. And, and Morocco, there's, there's so much to, to visually see and to take in and to experience. It's more of being in this, this today's culture, but yesterday's culture at the same time. Hard to explain that.

To me, but it's just, there's just that, that peace and, and the people are amazing. Uh, people in Egypt are amazing. Don't get me wrongly. They're phenomenal folks. Yeah. But, uh, it's just, it's, it's a different vibe. Yeah. It's [00:54:00] something that's I think anyone would, would enjoy. Absolutely. I mean, if you are used to certain, you know, European things, it'll be a, a difference of, because the culture's different.

Yeah. Yeah. But there's so much richness in it so that I'll just kind of leave it at that. Absolutely. You have to really go to know. It's hard for me to explain. Yes. Unless you're there, you 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: have to feel it. Yes, you're right. You have to experience it and be Absolutely. And be in the experience. Yes. Yes. And finally, John, was it.

One lasting image or feeling that you took away from your trip to Morocco, something that stuck with you, stayed with you? I know you said, you know, everything stays with you, but is there one thing? 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Well, I'll just show you right here. Okay. You can see, I didn't mention this before, but I did mention that I teach Alchemy and Hermetic Arts and Sciences.

Oh wow. But there, but in Marakesh there's a, a part of the. The, uh, Suk is a sacred area, [00:55:00] and if you're at all end to incense, the 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Oh 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: wow. Amazing incense that I bought there. This is all, that's white frankincense. This is red frankincense. 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: Oh, that's amazing. Oh my goodness. And then 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: black frankincense. Wow. And sandalwood and mur.

I mean, this is the real. The real thing. They're not what's in sticks. Yes. And they're not what you can buy, you know, off Amazon. Yes. You really have to go there to, to see the colors, smell, smell the scent, and just one of these little rocks alone here would be about 30 or $40. Oh 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: wow. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: This is amazing, the price that I got all this for.

Oh my God. And that's just, this is just part of my collection. So there's that whole sacred Yes. Part of this trip that I didn't even talk about. Yeah. That probably a whole nother 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: conversation, 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: but it, it's, it's absolutely, um. It's magical. That's all I'll say. Wow, 

AZDEAN ELMOUSTAQUIM: that's [00:56:00] amazing. Uh, obviously you had one of the most incredible experiences in Morocco and it shows, uh, and it's, it's gonna show in in this episode.

It's, and people are gonna feel it and they're gonna hear it, and they're gonna sense it. And I'm, I'm very grateful to be part of it, John. So this is just, it's beyond incredible. Well, thank you. Absolutely. Thank you. 

JOHN HERNANDEZ: Alright, take care. 

Bye-bye. Bye-bye.